Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

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Takara
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Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Takara » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:30 am

Oh dear oh dear, where to start!? ok, i got my two "female" ratties from an ethical breeder, they were "mother and daughter" - apparently the mother was a rescue and she was pregnant, she had 2 babies, a girl and a boy. the boy was paired with another lonely boy and the girl was paired with her mommy, i adopted the mommy and daughter.
or so i thought.
i heard a lot of commotion at about 3am this morning, screeching and whatnot, turned on the light and there was baby Kirah humping mommy Nessie :o :o :o i then took Kira out of the cage, and i kid you not - she has sprouted TESTICLES overnight. I swear they were NOT there yesterday!!!!
Kirah is around 5 weeks by the way, Nessie is 5 months what do i do!?!?!?
Do male and female rats generally live together well? (i mean if i got Kirah neutered would they live together happily? or constantly try to hump and end up screeching at each other?)
Now i fear Nessie is already preggers and its just a three week waiting game, arrghhh! Oh well, looks like another excuse to start watching rattie houses lol.
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hedgeweasel
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by hedgeweasel » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:54 am

ok,

first of all split them up just in case, because if mum isnt already pregnant you want to avoid it happening,

secondly, your ethical breeder doesnt sound very ethical imo, 5 weeks is a little young for a rat to be split and rehomed (i know shes technically not split)

now, deep breaths, are you sure that kira is definatly a boy? thats not something a breeder should mistake tbh so either they arent as good as they claim or kira is a girl :) Girls do hump each other as a sign of dominance

are you near someone who could possibly have a double check for you?

hope it all works out for you,

oh possibly could you post pictures of kiras nethers? then we could get some opinions?

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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Rattybabe » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:50 pm

IF Kira is indeed a buck, you may be lucky - although it is entirely possible for them to successfully breed at 5 weeks, it's believed that a lot of bucks don't become fertile until around 7 weeks, so you may have got away with it!
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by katielittle25 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:09 pm

I am always the optimist.

Female rats do hump each other when they are in heat. How big are these testicles? I ask because in small female rats, when they need a poo, the pocket just above the anus can look like little testicles.

If Kirah is actually a boy, and you get him neutered, he will live very happily with your girl. Some of the best relationships are formed between girls and neutered boys in my opinion. However there are certain ethical problems surrounding neutering out of convenience, but I would not advise that you give one of your rats back to that breeder (or do a swap), so it may be your only option, other than rehoming which I am sure you dont want to do.

A picture of Kirah's nether regions would clear this up, if you can do that?

Good luck!!

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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by daffee » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:53 pm

I agree with what has been said, if the baby is only 5 weeks then hopefully he won't quite have reached sexual maturity. But i wouldn't think much of any breeder who couldn't sex a 5 week old rat :-? Pictures on here are the best way to settle your mind about whether Kira is a girl or boy though. You should separate them until you know for sure, just in case. If Kira is a boy then he will need some friends asap and so will mum. If she is unlucky enough to be pregnant again then she will need a lot of support throughout. Fingers crossed Kira is just a boisterous girlie :luck:
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Takara » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:16 pm

hedgeweasel wrote:ok,

first of all split them up just in case, because if mum isnt already pregnant you want to avoid it happening,


hedgeweasel wrote:secondly, your ethical breeder doesnt sound very ethical imo, 5 weeks is a little young for a rat to be split and rehomed (i know shes technically not split)

well if rats are capable of breeding at 5 weeks (which they can be) then isn't it more ethical to stop them impregnating their mothers who have just had babies 5 weeks ago? IMO i wouldnt like Nessie to get preggers again already, it's doesnt seem fair on her :-?
Also, i think i made a mistake, Kirah is 6 weeks (not sure if that makes a difference to fertility..)

hedgeweasel wrote:now, deep breaths, are you sure that kira is definatly a boy? thats not something a breeder should mistake tbh so either they arent as good as they claim or kira is a girl :) Girls do hump each other as a sign of dominance


well, it's usually easy to tell male ratties but kirah REALLY looked like a girl when i first got her, i've seen numerous rats her age before, both male and female, and ok im not an expert but she looked nothing like a male! possibly theres a little underground rat-sex-change-clinic somewhere she/he has sneaked out to lol.
katielittle25 wrote:If Kirah is actually a boy, and you get him neutered, he will live very happily with your girl. Some of the best relationships are formed between girls and neutered boys in my opinion. However there are certain ethical problems surrounding neutering out of convenience, but I would not advise that you give one of your rats back to that breeder (or do a swap), so it may be your only option, other than rehoming which I am sure you dont want to do.
it wouldnt really be out of convenience, i can easily get them another cage and pair them with other ratties, its more - well, if they have bonded i wouldnt want to split them up again ya know?
argh, im going to find out today though!
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by spoiled_rat » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:37 pm

who did you get the ratties from??
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by hedgeweasel » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:42 pm

Takara wrote:
hedgeweasel wrote:ok,

first of all split them up just in case, because if mum isnt already pregnant you want to avoid it happening,


hedgeweasel wrote:secondly, your ethical breeder doesnt sound very ethical imo, 5 weeks is a little young for a rat to be split and rehomed (i know shes technically not split)

well if rats are capable of breeding at 5 weeks (which they can be) then isn't it more ethical to stop them impregnating their mothers who have just had babies 5 weeks ago? IMO i wouldnt like Nessie to get preggers again already, it's doesnt seem fair on her :-?
Also, i think i made a mistake, Kirah is 6 weeks (not sure if that makes a difference to fertility..)

hedgeweasel wrote:now, deep breaths, are you sure that kira is definatly a boy? thats not something a breeder should mistake tbh so either they arent as good as they claim or kira is a girl :) Girls do hump each other as a sign of dominance


well, it's usually easy to tell male ratties but kirah REALLY looked like a girl when i first got her, i've seen numerous rats her age before, both male and female, and ok im not an expert but she looked nothing like a male! possibly theres a little underground rat-sex-change-clinic somewhere she/he has sneaked out to lol.
katielittle25 wrote:If Kirah is actually a boy, and you get him neutered, he will live very happily with your girl. Some of the best relationships are formed between girls and neutered boys in my opinion. However there are certain ethical problems surrounding neutering out of convenience, but I would not advise that you give one of your rats back to that breeder (or do a swap), so it may be your only option, other than rehoming which I am sure you dont want to do.
it wouldnt really be out of convenience, i can easily get them another cage and pair them with other ratties, its more - well, if they have bonded i wouldnt want to split them up again ya know?
argh, im going to find out today though!


sorry if i upset you, just imo 5 weeks and possible boy doesnt sound right for a good breeder, but anyway thats not the point, the point is we hope you can get things sorted one way or another, :)

and they are usually split boys/ girls at about (dont hold me to it as im not a breeder) 4.5/5 weeks but not rehomed until 6 weeks plus, so if she is 6 weeks that would be about right,

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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by daffee » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:32 pm

Takara wrote:it wouldnt really be out of convenience, i can easily get them another cage and pair them with other ratties, its more - well, if they have bonded i wouldnt want to split them up again ya know?


I wouldn't recommend that you neuter in this situation. I'm not sure if there is a minimum age for neutering, but they would have to be kept separate until the operation and then for a minimum of 2 weeks after the op which wouldn't be fair on either of them. Plus there is the issue of operating uneccessarily. If i were you, I would get them both new cagemates if Kira is definitely a boy. :smileyrat:
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Vicki_of_Abno
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Vicki_of_Abno » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:26 pm

Having just looked at your pics in Your Rats I'm pretty certain I can see tezzers on Kira in that first photo so I would definitely split them and arrange a baby boy or pair of boys for Kira and maybe an older companion from rescue for mummy :)
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Takara » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:33 pm

well it's confirmed, Kirah is a boy! this is SO STRANGE, i have handled numerous rats, i'd say approximateld 50-ish if i make a guess (a lot of my friends have/have had ratties) and they have always been pretty easy to tell their sex, even at 4-6 weeks usually. Kirah however....must have had his ballz sucked right into his stomach, i've never seen testicles sprout out like this in my LIFE, they literally appeared overnight. how bizarre! i swear she was IMO 99% sure a girl when i got her. Maybe she/he's a hermaphrodite :-?

so i have to boy-i-fy her name, Kira (pronounced Kee-ra instead of Ky-rah, it can be used for boys ;) ) and currently i have them in separate cages right next to each other so they can see each other...(well, an inch apart so theres no bumming up against cageside :S

i have a new problem. my dad is being a *removed* and is banning me from getting anymore rats. i have 2 options here, neuter Kira >.< and put him back with his mummy, or just get them playmates anyway and hope he doesn't notice :S or...actually, i have 3! move out!
Rant ahead: what the *removed* is wrong with rats!??!?! they're one of the cleanest animals out there, *removed*, they're DOMETICATED, they are NOT wild sewer rats. But NOOOOOOOOO he has it in his thick skull that they are "vermin" and "he wont have them in his house". *removed*. apparently "rats are NOT your typical pet" according to His Snobbery. He even thinks that "they never come out the cage" and if he ever seen them out he'd probably have a heart attack. *removed*

Anyhoo, im having a dilemma here, if it were my choice i would get them both playmates pronto. But, i dont know if Nessie might already be preggers :S and my dads being a *removed*....soooo, who knows :?

sorry if i upset you, just imo 5 weeks and possible boy doesnt sound right for a good breeder, but anyway thats not the point, the point is we hope you can get things sorted one way or another, :)

i got mixed up - their ages were 5 months and 6 weeks, i have a *removed* short-term memory so i remembered it as 6 months and 5 weeks. Anyhoo, you didn't upset me as such, you just need to remember that ratty families - like human families - dont always stick to the "2.4 children nuclear family fly the nest at 21" stereotype, and deviation from that don't necessarily mean any immoriality commited by the previous owner/breeder/rescuer etc.

Im sure it will sort out somehow though, even if i have to sneak in some ratties and hope the dumb father-feature doesn't notice :P

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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Vicki_of_Abno » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:11 pm

Do you think you can arrange a foster carer for Nessie if she is pregnant?
Then you could maybe look for another baby boy for Kirah?

To be honest, I wouldn't get more rats against the wishes of your father, as annoying as it is, you really do need to make sure you have permission as otherwise he could potentially force you to 'get rid' of them at any point really, and obviously it's not clever to have rats when you're not sure you can keep them.

Right now it's neither here nor there when/how the tezzers appeared but Kirah is a boy and he needs a same age/same sex playmate, and Nessie is now potentially pregnant again.
If I were you I'd be inclined to find a decent vet to spay Nessie ASAP, and then she can go straight back with Kirah.
This eliminates the possibility of a litter and more rats to find homes for and it means Kirah doesn't need 'unnecessary' surgery which would lead to him having to stay apart from Mum for at least a fortnight if she's not preggers, or a good 9 weeks or so if she is preggers.

Ask around and look in the vet recommendation post in Health to find a good vet, but as Mum is only 5 months old and in good health, and has only just had a litter, this would be my preferred course of action in this situation.

I know others may disagree but last thing on Earth this situation needs is Mummy rat having another litter, another potentially 20 odd rats needing homes, and annoying your Dad because you have to get more rats to keep Kirah company AND you have a litter of smelly, pingy babies!
Vicki x

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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by SargentEllie » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:29 pm

I would also spay her rarther than neuter the boy. Its slightly more risky surgery but if you have to put one under anyway makes sense. Like vicky said there are so so many rats in rescue atm.
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Solar » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:36 am

I was going to mention about a rat that looked a little like a boy because it was hairless and had what looked like tezzers but turned out to be a girl with poo in her bum, making her look boyish. She had babies because even the vet said she was a hermaphrite.

Checking for nipples will be your best bet, boys don't have nipples and feel the tezzers because they should feel different then a lumpy bum :lol:

I would say find a very, very good vet to neuter the girl since there's a huge problem with rescues (even babies) finding homes. :( If not get the boy neutered as your dad doesn't want you getting more rats so wouldn't be wise getting more as he could tell you to get rid of all of them, but if she does give birth he'll have no say in the matter (except maybe get rid), fingers crossed that the boy isn't old enough yet since he's just dropped as it appears. xxx
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Re: Kira has got herself a sex change! HELP!

Post by Takara » Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:30 pm

heh, i've been guilt-tripping my dad with the whole "lonely rats get depressed" thing....so fingers crossed his guilt will make him give in :lol
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