Massive facial lump!

For all aspects of your rat's health, from prevention, to symptoms, to treatments and veterinary care.
User avatar
Elmo
Member
Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland

Massive facial lump!

Post by Elmo » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:20 am

It never ends! After losing Felix on Monday, & Charlie being miserable because of that (& now sneezy..), Miles was my only healthy rat.

I got home from work last night to find Miles sporting a massive lump just under his ear. Theres some solid discharge inside his ear, but too deep for me to get a good look at. He was absolutely fine yday morning.

My immediate thought was ZGT, but im hoping its just an abcess. He & Charlie are now booked in to see the on-call vet tonight. Its a vet i don't really like, but the surgery is booked solid til mid next wk, so i took what i could get.

Yrs ago i had a boy who had a facial lump, got op'd on, & died not long after the op. They reckoned that was ZGT. But he didnt have any ear discharge. I'm just really hoping Miles just has an abcess. I've only had him a yr!

Hes stil bouncing around being naughty, eating everything in sight, so hes fine otherwise.

Any advice on ZGT/facial abcess' ?

R.
The Brackets looketh somewhat Tech-y and maybe Confusing. Fear not the Brackets, for they are Good. They make thy Post looketh Spiffy.

User avatar
Blue Dragon
Member
Member
Posts: 723
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:42 pm
Location: Consett, Co Durham

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Blue Dragon » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:24 am

If it's an absess you could give it a wash with some warm water and a cotton wool pad. It might bust it and then you can clean it out and hopfully it'll heal its-self after a short while. I've done this before with absesses and sometimes it busts and somtimes it doesn't. Worth a try though.
Georgie, Inky, Sugar, Jacky and Laratta.
And to all my ratties who have passed, I'll miss you all till I see you again. You're Gone for now, but never forgotten.

User avatar
petrify
Member
Member
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:50 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by petrify » Fri Apr 08, 2011 10:33 am

If it is ZGT then the abcess will reoccur no matter how good you treat it. You say there is discharge from the ear? An abcess usually finds the easiest way through tissue. The ear canal is a very tough tissue, which means that puss from that is very unlikely to mean abcess puss. Is there any blood in the ear? My Thomas had a swelling literally pop up over night. With 24hours he had bleeding from the ear. We tried antibiotics etc as the abcess wasnt at the skin but quite far in. But with in two weeks we lost him. Sorry this is such a downer comment, but just trying to give you an idea of symptoms vs time scale. i really hope it isnt ZGT. Its a horrible disease, and i wish you both the best of luck. I have had three of them in my rats last year, and it was absolutely heartbreaking. X x
Rayne & Myst Sleeping:Tempest, Ghost, Whisper, Casper, Lara, Flick, Hopeful, Little Bit, Phoenix, Lady-bum, Embie, Tommy, Fernie, Bea, Aurora, Hazel & Willow, Freya, Missy. Goos Harold & Humphrey

User avatar
Elmo
Member
Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Elmo » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:40 am

petrify wrote:If it is ZGT then the abcess will reoccur no matter how good you treat it. You say there is discharge from the ear? An abcess usually finds the easiest way through tissue. The ear canal is a very tough tissue, which means that puss from that is very unlikely to mean abcess puss. Is there any blood in the ear? My Thomas had a swelling literally pop up over night. With 24hours he had bleeding from the ear. We tried antibiotics etc as the abcess wasnt at the skin but quite far in. But with in two weeks we lost him. Sorry this is such a downer comment, but just trying to give you an idea of symptoms vs time scale. i really hope it isnt ZGT. Its a horrible disease, and i wish you both the best of luck. I have had three of them in my rats last year, and it was absolutely heartbreaking. X x
Don't worry about it being a downer comment, its also v. informative :) He didnt have any bleeding when i left this morning, & my mum always checks them when she gets home at 12ish, so im sure if there was bleeding she'd have called me.

When i finally got a look in his ear last night there was white/creamy coloured stuff in there, like blocking off the ear canal almost? Seemed solid, smells manky. Still the same this morning.

Hes never really been ill before, just the odd sniffle, & an abcess on his stomach at 1 point. Like i said, iv only had him a yr (almost a yr to the day actually!), but he was 6months old when i got him. I feel really bad liek iv been neglecting him a little the last wee while, what with Charlie getting ill (then recovering), then Felix getting really ill (& dying).

I just feel so sad. For him & for me.

R.
The Brackets looketh somewhat Tech-y and maybe Confusing. Fear not the Brackets, for they are Good. They make thy Post looketh Spiffy.

User avatar
Elmo
Member
Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Elmo » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:53 pm

Been reading up everything i can on ZGT, mostly this , & totally freaked myself out to the stage where im now convinced im cursed, what with all the rat illness iv had to deal with recently.

I'll try & get a pic of Miles later, see what you guys think, before we go to the vets.

R.
The Brackets looketh somewhat Tech-y and maybe Confusing. Fear not the Brackets, for they are Good. They make thy Post looketh Spiffy.

User avatar
petrify
Member
Member
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:50 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by petrify » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:14 pm

(sorry for all my grammar/spelling issues in my previous posts...typing on a phone is not the best way to type!!) I'm glad it wasnt a downer....I hate giving advice on possibly fatal conditions-esp. this :(

As you've probably seen from my posts on that thread, I had very different experiences from one ZGT to the next. Tom lasted a relatively short time, as did Ember but Phoenix lasted a long while. Phoenix lasted a long while because the tumour grew outwards (literally out of the side of her face) and we effectively got rid of the abcess. The up side was that she was fine in herself. The bad side was that there was a constant open wound on the side of her face. The only thing we could do was treat the abcesses. With Ember eventually the scab came off and we got ALOT of puss out, I thought she would be with us a bit longer because of that. Certainly before we had her PTS she seemed alot more comfortable. With Tom, the tumour grew up behind his ear almost reaching the top of his head and with Ember I think it started to as well.

I mean, it may not be a ZGT at all (in which case huzzah!) and it may just be an abcess or an ear infection that has become an abcess (which I saw in Whispers later life). If so then a strong and lengthy prescription of antibiotics are needed.

I think that thread tells you the medicines that we used. We did a couple of aspirations as well the make sure that the lump was an abcess before we heat compressed them to form scabs. I always like to know what I'm dealing with. You can also have the puss sent away to tell you what antibiotics are best to kill the bugs.

Best of luck at the vets :love: :luck: Let me know how it goes!
Rayne & Myst Sleeping:Tempest, Ghost, Whisper, Casper, Lara, Flick, Hopeful, Little Bit, Phoenix, Lady-bum, Embie, Tommy, Fernie, Bea, Aurora, Hazel & Willow, Freya, Missy. Goos Harold & Humphrey

User avatar
KatieJ
Member
Member
Posts: 1489
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:49 am
Location: Reading, Berkshire

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by KatieJ » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:51 pm

:( It doesn't sound great whatever the cause. Just wanted to send you a quick *hug* and wish you luck xx
::Katie::
~Wisdom~Bounty~Sparrow~Sunshine~Arfur~Wilson~Deeks~Oakie~

User avatar
petrify
Member
Member
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:50 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by petrify » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:47 pm

How did the vets go? Any luck?
Rayne & Myst Sleeping:Tempest, Ghost, Whisper, Casper, Lara, Flick, Hopeful, Little Bit, Phoenix, Lady-bum, Embie, Tommy, Fernie, Bea, Aurora, Hazel & Willow, Freya, Missy. Goos Harold & Humphrey

User avatar
Elmo
Member
Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Elmo » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:45 pm

Not long home from vet. Vet (who was actually pretty nice, so obv. not who i remembered from before!) reckoned its a tumour, but theres an infection there too. So hes on Baytril for a wk, then back to see her, & we'll see from there.

Not really sure how to feel, since i also had to deal with having Charlie PTS tonight too :(

R.
The Brackets looketh somewhat Tech-y and maybe Confusing. Fear not the Brackets, for they are Good. They make thy Post looketh Spiffy.

User avatar
petrify
Member
Member
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:50 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by petrify » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:49 pm

I'm so sorry :( xx

If you want to chat to someone whos been through it, I can offer my support should you need x
Rayne & Myst Sleeping:Tempest, Ghost, Whisper, Casper, Lara, Flick, Hopeful, Little Bit, Phoenix, Lady-bum, Embie, Tommy, Fernie, Bea, Aurora, Hazel & Willow, Freya, Missy. Goos Harold & Humphrey

User avatar
KatieJ
Member
Member
Posts: 1489
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:49 am
Location: Reading, Berkshire

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by KatieJ » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:22 am

petrify wrote:I'm so sorry :( xx

If you want to chat to someone whos been through it, I can offer my support should you need x
^ This ^ My poor old Dolly had a similar lump, identified under surgery as an abcess on top of (and caused by) a tumour. She was on AB's the week previously which did reduce the swelling a little, but obviously couldn't touch the tumour that was apparently behind it. Synulox is better than baytril on pussy infections if you can get hold of that. I hope the AB's help x
::Katie::
~Wisdom~Bounty~Sparrow~Sunshine~Arfur~Wilson~Deeks~Oakie~

User avatar
Lynda
Member
Member
Posts: 529
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Plymouth, Devon
Contact:

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Lynda » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:50 pm

Can't offer any advice, but have a cuddle from me and the boys xx
Lynda, with her boys the Park Babies Mink de Ville, DJ, Baby and Lightning. Sparky the syrian hammy. Rosie theTarantula. And the Tropical Fishies. Not forgetting Hellstorm Cloud. Forever in my heart, my beautiful boy xx

User avatar
Elmo
Member
Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Elmo » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:35 pm

Thanks for all the responses :)

Well Miles lump is growing, & altho iv seen no 'actual' blood, theres what looks like dried blood in his ear. Hes stil in good spirits - running around like a mad-thing anytime he gets the chance, but he is abit quieter than usual, tho that could be (& prob is) down to losing Felix & Charlie - a week ago he was 1 of 3, now hes alone..

From everything i've read, a successful full removal is quite rare, & if its only partially removed it'll grow back faster - is that right? Coz from the way its growing right now, its already growing reasonably fast - im seeing a change in it every day - so im wondering whether to let them see if they can remove it. Its not even been confirmed its a tumour, but from the evidence, it def. seems like it is :(

Hes so full of life, id hate for something like this to take him when hes still little. Hes 18months - i found his 'adoption' certificate the other day, we got him on 05/04/2010, so we've had him just over a yr :)

I've tried to get pics, but he doesnt like being restrained much right now, so its been impossible.

Any opinions/advice much appreciated :)

R.
The Brackets looketh somewhat Tech-y and maybe Confusing. Fear not the Brackets, for they are Good. They make thy Post looketh Spiffy.

User avatar
petrify
Member
Member
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:50 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by petrify » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:04 pm

From what I have heard and read, yes, removal is very difficult and may result in doing nothing but "debulking" the tumour for maybe a week tops. Also, the surgery is very involved and has a very very high risk as it would mean removing tissue near the brain and the whole ear.

Sorry this is a short reply, on my phone!
Rayne & Myst Sleeping:Tempest, Ghost, Whisper, Casper, Lara, Flick, Hopeful, Little Bit, Phoenix, Lady-bum, Embie, Tommy, Fernie, Bea, Aurora, Hazel & Willow, Freya, Missy. Goos Harold & Humphrey

User avatar
Elmo
Member
Member
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Fife, Scotland

Re: Massive facial lump!

Post by Elmo » Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:30 am

Ok, so i've been away since yday lunchtime (family emergency meant dropping everything) but lovely neighbour gave Miles his meds for me - luckily Miles takes his meds fabulously - & luckily sed neighbour was home so i could actually show him what to do! (coz he was off work ill & i dragged him outta bed :oops: ).

I've literally just got in, checked on Miles, & well, he was delighted to see me, all bouncy :) The solid lump hasn't grown anymore overnight, & is also squishy! I first thought 'oh god, its popped internally', but i gave it a little squeeze & it doesnt get smaller at all - tho i know that don't mean its not leaking internally..

Hes also developed the start of a scab on his cheek - i did put a warm/hot compress on it yday morning, but i doubt thats what made it happen. Hopefully i can keep doing the compresses, & hope it bursts so i can see whats in it.

He now has a very clean ear, no blood or blood staining, but manky smell from ear & nostril on same side.

Vet again on Thursday.

So, does that all seem good or bad? Thing that worries me most is the solid to squishy thing.. Can't decide if thats good or bad..

R.
The Brackets looketh somewhat Tech-y and maybe Confusing. Fear not the Brackets, for they are Good. They make thy Post looketh Spiffy.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 26 guests