Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

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Bea_broccoli
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Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by Bea_broccoli » Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:56 am

My very old boy, Jasper, has got a really bad respy problem :( I have available to me Dexamethasone, Metacam and Baytril.

What would be the ideal combo with these? or would you recommend another medication?

thanks for your help
:olddumbobuck: Milo, :olddumbobuck: Jasper, India & Atlas, the Royal Pythons, Lestat and Akasha, the Cornsnakes & Ryu, the Bearded Dragon :hearts:
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sati18
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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by sati18 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:24 am

A few questions if you don't mind?

* Is his infection acute (came on rapidly but quickly) or chronic (Longstanding infection that has got progressively worse)
* how is his health apart from the infection?
* Could you go into more detail about his symptoms:
* Is his breathing laboured?
* Are his lungs dry and raspy or wet and gurgly sounding.
*has a vet confirmed that there is deifnitely lung involvement, or is he just making snotty hooting warbly noises?
* has he been on antibiotics previously for respiratory infections, if so what and how often?

Since you have baytril there i would defintiely start him on that, but since you say its a bad infection you'll want to use another antibiotic in combination. What he's bee treated with before and the type of infection will affect which may be the best antibiotic to add to the baytril.

Regarding metacam OR dexamethasone (you should NOT use both together as it can cause gastrointestinal bleeding). Both of them are anti inflammatories and as such will reduce inflammation in the lungs if they are inflamed.
However Dexamethasone is muych stronger, but the negative is that it works by suppressing the immune system so you risk reducing the rats ability to fight the infection. metacam is weaker but won't reduce the rats ability to fight off infection. The dex would be more appropriate in a chronic condition where other anti inflammatories had failed to help. IMO.

So short version- start with the metacam and see if that helps. re-visit the decision if not. I would also add a powder called Bisolvon to the meds, as that will thin any mucous down and make it more watery so easier to shift. It also helps antibiotics to penetrate better into the mucous in the lungs. It's low risk so your vet shouldn't have any problems prescribing it.

Finally if his lungs are full of fluid then a diuretic would be appropriate to use such as furosemide which will reduce the amount of water in the body overall and therefore reduce fluid in lungs. But you don't want to give something like that if there isn't any fluid.

Hope this helps- sorry for the length or if i;'ve told you stuff you already know but i think that people should know why they are advised to give something in case the vets ask about it or disagree.
Proudly owned by the big boys (Jeff, George & Toby) and the babbies (Sid & Ozzy)
RIP Monty, Emile, Leo, Angus, Otto, Remy and Rafe... mummy misses you every day.

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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by Bea_broccoli » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:41 am

sati18 wrote:A few questions if you don't mind?

* Is his infection acute (came on rapidly but quickly) or chronic (Longstanding infection that has got progressively worse)
* how is his health apart from the infection?
* Could you go into more detail about his symptoms:
* Is his breathing laboured?
* Are his lungs dry and raspy or wet and gurgly sounding.
*has a vet confirmed that there is deifnitely lung involvement, or is he just making snotty hooting warbly noises?
* has he been on antibiotics previously for respiratory infections, if so what and how often?

Since you have baytril there i would defintiely start him on that, but since you say its a bad infection you'll want to use another antibiotic in combination. What he's bee treated with before and the type of infection will affect which may be the best antibiotic to add to the baytril.

Regarding metacam OR dexamethasone (you should NOT use both together as it can cause gastrointestinal bleeding). Both of them are anti inflammatories and as such will reduce inflammation in the lungs if they are inflamed.
However Dexamethasone is muych stronger, but the negative is that it works by suppressing the immune system so you risk reducing the rats ability to fight the infection. metacam is weaker but won't reduce the rats ability to fight off infection. The dex would be more appropriate in a chronic condition where other anti inflammatories had failed to help. IMO.

So short version- start with the metacam and see if that helps. re-visit the decision if not. I would also add a powder called Bisolvon to the meds, as that will thin any mucous down and make it more watery so easier to shift. It also helps antibiotics to penetrate better into the mucous in the lungs. It's low risk so your vet shouldn't have any problems prescribing it.

Finally if his lungs are full of fluid then a diuretic would be appropriate to use such as furosemide which will reduce the amount of water in the body overall and therefore reduce fluid in lungs. But you don't want to give something like that if there isn't any fluid.

Hope this helps- sorry for the length or if i;'ve told you stuff you already know but i think that people should know why they are advised to give something in case the vets ask about it or disagree.
For the degree of the infection and the sound he's making, it sounds like it's got worse, in a very short period of time.
His health is excellent otherwise! He's still eating, drinking and moving about absolutely fine.
His breathing is definitely laboured.
He's making squeaking noises when he breathes (which I heard when I had to put my other boy, Jazzy, to sleep when he developed Pneumonia)
He's sneezing, and his chest is clicking loudly and is 100% audible, even from across the room.
I've listened to his chest myself, and theres clicking noises there, and they're quite prominent:- he's at the vets tomorrow.
Nope, never, he's in excellent health and always has been.

He's 2 years and 4 months old :)

Funny you say that about the Bisolvon, I had it prescribed to me by the vet when Jazzy had pneumonia and I was thinking a combination of Bisolvon, Metacam and Baytril would be ideal. I have all of those at hand.

Only problem is, I'm not sure on dosage for the Metacam; he's 550 grams.

Thanks for all of your help and your reply is much, much appreciated :)
:olddumbobuck: Milo, :olddumbobuck: Jasper, India & Atlas, the Royal Pythons, Lestat and Akasha, the Cornsnakes & Ryu, the Bearded Dragon :hearts:
Edward, Treo & Oscar :dumbohalo: & Jazzy :dumbohalo: :rainbow:

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Neotoma
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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by Neotoma » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:59 pm

I'd ask the vet for doxycycline, to be used either alone or in combination with the baytril. And I'd try the metacam before the steroid, as if it's an active infection depressing the immune system is a bad idea (steroids are best for when chronic inflammation is the main problem). However, I'd give a low dose of metacam as it's not the best drug for kidneys, which is a consideration in old boys.
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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by Bea_broccoli » Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:59 pm

Neotoma wrote:I'd ask the vet for doxycycline, to be used either alone or in combination with the baytril. And I'd try the metacam before the steroid, as if it's an active infection depressing the immune system is a bad idea (steroids are best for when chronic inflammation is the main problem). However, I'd give a low dose of metacam as it's not the best drug for kidneys, which is a consideration in old boys.
Whats the best dose of metacam to give? theyre on ipakitine and kidney friendly straights at the moment to protect their kidneys, especially with Milo who has HLD.
:olddumbobuck: Milo, :olddumbobuck: Jasper, India & Atlas, the Royal Pythons, Lestat and Akasha, the Cornsnakes & Ryu, the Bearded Dragon :hearts:
Edward, Treo & Oscar :dumbohalo: & Jazzy :dumbohalo: :rainbow:

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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by KellyTheCrazyRatLady » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:35 pm

for any resp issues i always use zithromax and ronaxan. baytril dosent seem to get to the problem. metacam is for pain and inflammation so i only use that for swollen feet etc or if they have a bad wound that is painful.
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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by Neotoma » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:27 pm

I'd only give metacam if you think he needs it - dose depends on whether you have the cat one or the dog one. I usually give two or three drops (dog version) at a time, once or twice a day, to start with - which is way under the maximum dose, but I like room to work upwards if necessary.
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Re: Baytril and...? for respiratory problems.

Post by sati18 » Fri Aug 05, 2011 11:35 am

Thanks for replying to all my questions and sorry it's taken a while to get back in here are you typd all that. :oops:

Agree with Neotoma. If he hasn't already been treated to death with Baytril then my choices would be Baytril and Ronoxan to hit it hard. I'd suggest a long course too (4 weeks) to ensure that the infection really does get wiped out... but you should see imporvement within a few days (3-5 i usually expect to see some improvement) so if no response after that time then you may wish to consider playing with the antibiotic combination.

Metacam dosage depends on which one it is- My vets give me the meloxidyl and I've used up to a 5kg dose for a 500g rat, but i'm not sure of the dose if its not meloxidyl.

dose advice from the vets tends to range from 1-5 drops a day.

Definitely use the bisolvon if you have it there as well- it's a useful aid and as mentioned before... has not been indicated as particularly high risk to me. My vets tend to prescribe me a wodge and let me use my own judgement as to when to dose the boys with it if they're snuffly.
Proudly owned by the big boys (Jeff, George & Toby) and the babbies (Sid & Ozzy)
RIP Monty, Emile, Leo, Angus, Otto, Remy and Rafe... mummy misses you every day.

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