Baytril Dosage

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Anthony
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Baytril Dosage

Post by Anthony » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:53 pm

Hey,

I'm just wondering if having 0.1ml/100g of rat can effect their health? Basically, my Vet gave Riley this dosage a couple of months back aftetr I asked for it to combat on going resp problems (since Jan!), we beat the infection with this dosage and metacam. I found they were coming back, but this time the vet will only give me 0.15ml for him (I didnt realise til I got home!) so I called the vets and they said having him on any higher could effect his health, but they would put him on the higher dose if I wanted.

He is also on 0.05ml of metacam with this dosage. Just need some advice before I decide what dosage I want to give him.

Also, what does 10mg/kg mean? this is what the NFRS handbook says to give of Baytril.


Cheers :)
Ollie :dumbo:, Oskar :dumbo:, Riley :smileyrat:, Joey :smileyrat:, Rupert :smileyrat: Eska :teen: , Erik :teen: and The baby :dumboteen:, Miles :baby:, Axel :baby:

RIP Louis, Minnie & Ginger <3

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Neotoma
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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Neotoma » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:19 pm

Ok, 10 mg / 1 kg. you have to convert between weights and volumes, but you also have to remember that the advice given in mg is talking about pure baytril, whereas what we are given by the vet is a diluted solution (usually a 2.5% solution)

10 mg roughly = 0.01 ml (a ml of water weighs about 1 g)

So 10 mg / kg equals 0.01 ml of pure baytril per kilogram of rat, or, 0.001 ml per 100 g of rat

My baytril is 2.5% in 100 ml - i.e 100 ml contains 2.5 ml of pure baytril, 1 ml contains 0.025 ml of baytril, and 0.1 ml contains 0.0025 ml of baytril

The dose is 0.1 ml of solution twice a day. 0.0025 multiplied by 2 is 0.005 ml of pure baytril - which would therefore be the correct dose for a boy of 500 g.
Alison and the horde of squish :smileyrat:

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Anthony
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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Anthony » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:35 pm

Neotoma wrote:Ok, 10 mg / 1 kg. you have to convert between weights and volumes, but you also have to remember that the advice given in mg is talking about pure baytril, whereas what we are given by the vet is a diluted solution (usually a 2.5% solution)

10 mg roughly = 0.01 ml (a ml of water weighs about 1 g)

So 10 mg / kg equals 0.01 ml of pure baytril per kilogram of rat, or, 0.001 ml per 100 g of rat

My baytril is 2.5% in 100 ml - i.e 100 ml contains 2.5 ml of pure baytril, 1 ml contains 0.025 ml of baytril, and 0.1 ml contains 0.0025 ml of baytril

The dose is 0.1 ml of solution twice a day. 0.0025 multiplied by 2 is 0.005 ml of pure baytril - which would therefore be the correct dose for a boy of 500 g.
so it's 0.005ml of pure baytril, meaning he needs 0.5ml of the diluted solution since he is 500g?

Or am I being stupid? :X
Ollie :dumbo:, Oskar :dumbo:, Riley :smileyrat:, Joey :smileyrat:, Rupert :smileyrat: Eska :teen: , Erik :teen: and The baby :dumboteen:, Miles :baby:, Axel :baby:

RIP Louis, Minnie & Ginger <3

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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Neotoma » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:25 pm

Not quite, no.

A 500 g boy needs 0.005 ml of pure baytril a day.

At a 2.5% solution, 0.005 ml of baytril, is 0.2 ml of solution (because 0.1 ml of solution is 0.0025 ml of baytril, and 0.0025 is half of 0.005). However, it's normal to split the daily dose into two (morning and evening), so that would be 0.1 ml per dose.
Alison and the horde of squish :smileyrat:

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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Anthony » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:40 pm

I'm a bit worried now, because on here everyone said that it was 0.1ml per 100g of rat. I've had all 10 of my boys on 0.1ml per 100g for 14 days a couple of months back and gave Riley that dosage today. Could this damage them? :S I'm worried now.

http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/community/v ... e#p1552675

that's just one of the thread.

thanks btw! I don't mean to be an idiot, haha.
Ollie :dumbo:, Oskar :dumbo:, Riley :smileyrat:, Joey :smileyrat:, Rupert :smileyrat: Eska :teen: , Erik :teen: and The baby :dumboteen:, Miles :baby:, Axel :baby:

RIP Louis, Minnie & Ginger <3

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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Neotoma » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:34 pm

Well, it depends on the strength of the solution for a start. 0.1 ml / 100g is meaningless unless you know that.

With a 2.5% solution (which is the usual one), 0.1 ml / 100 g is a higher dose than the 10 mg / kg recommended by the NFRS, and it's higher than my vet uses. I don't know if it's harmful or not (I have certainly given a higher dose than the NFRS one in the past).

What dose has your vet written on the bottle?
Alison and the horde of squish :smileyrat:

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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by KellyTheCrazyRatLady » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:07 pm

for all my boys i give the dosage of 0.4ml per med serving. i use 8 squeeses of metacam for my boys aswell as its hard to use a syringe to get it out the bottle, its equivilant to 0.3ml or 0.4ml. if i have a younger rat then i would use a lower dosage but rats over 4 months get the 0.4ml
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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Neotoma » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:03 pm

I've just had a long (loooooooooooong) chat with my vet about this, in order to clarify things - we even got to doing trial calcaulations on bits of paper :wink: Basically my working before was correct, but unnecessarily complicated (perils of being an academic chemist :rollred: ), so we've sorted out an easier description outlined below. The only thing I got wrong (because it was wrong on my old bottle) was that the total dose (10 mg / kg etc) should still be per dose and not per day.

Basically baytril dosing is very flexible - it depends on the animal and what you are trying to do, so there isn't a completely right or wrong thing. He also says that it is a generally a very safe drug.

So, the new working:

Firstly all baytril you're likely to be given is at 2.5% solution. The easiest way of thinking of this is that 1 ml of the solution contains 25 mg of baytril, and therefore 0.1 ml contains 2.5 mg of baytril.

The vetinary formulary (i.e. the advice vets use to work out dose) says 5 mg / kg. For a 500 g rat, this would be 0.1 ml, which is probably what your vet has worked on.

The NFRS recommends 10 mg / kg. This would be 0.2 ml in a 500 g rat.

This is what we're currently dosing my old boy at - but that is 2 ml twice a day

However, in certain circumstances, he says you can safely go above and dose at 20 mg / kg - it depends on what it's being used for (for the record 0.1 ml / 100 g is the same as 25 mg/ kg).

Because of the way baytril works to be effective, it needs to hit a certain concentration once during the dosing period (preferably early on) - therefore my vet suggests using a highish dose to start with.

So bottom line, although 0.1 ml / 100 g is a bit higher than recommended by the NFRS you won't have done any harm using it in the past. In future, it's best to discuss the dose with the vet - ask what mg / kg they are using and find out what the logic is for it, and if they are just going by the 5 mg / kg used by the formulary, consider asking them to increase it as that is below what is normally given as standard in rats.
Alison and the horde of squish :smileyrat:

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Re: Baytril Dosage

Post by Neotoma » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:50 pm

Neotoma wrote: The only thing I got wrong (because it was wrong on my old bottle) was that the total dose (10 mg / kg etc) should still be per dose and not per day.
Just to clarify this, when I say got wrong, I mean compared to the recommendation of my current vet. The original working was right according to the recommendation of the baytril article (10 mg / kg in 24 hours) - what it basically shows is that there is a lot of variability in how baytril is dosed, and a lot depends on the nature and severity of the problem being treated. Understanding your vet's reasoning for any specific rat and discussing it where necessary is much better than applying one rule to all rats.
Alison and the horde of squish :smileyrat:

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