Wild pet rats continued...

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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Ceslater » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Lillyland wrote:
toyah wrote:That looks like Rattus rattus to me rather than norwegicus.
To me too :)
it does to me too.

don't like the idea of taking away from mum but very interesting.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Cyber Ratty » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:47 pm

hardcorejillz wrote:Forgive me if I didnt read it properly, but there doesnt seem to be any mention of the baby rats' mother, so maybe we shouldnt all jump to conclusions & think that the OP took them away from the mother (which I agree would be wrong), perhaps the mother had died or abandonned them? In which case the OP saved their lives?
I quite agree.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Stevmic » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:55 pm

hardcorejillz wrote:Forgive me if I didnt read it properly, but there doesnt seem to be any mention of the baby rats' mother, so maybe we shouldnt all jump to conclusions & think that the OP took them away from the mother (which I agree would be wrong), perhaps the mother had died or abandonned them? In which case the OP saved their lives?
I did try to post something similar to that this morning,but a lack of signal stopped me. After so many requests for information the reaction appeared a little hostile based on assumptions.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Ceslater » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:20 pm

Stevmic wrote:
hardcorejillz wrote:Forgive me if I didnt read it properly, but there doesnt seem to be any mention of the baby rats' mother, so maybe we shouldnt all jump to conclusions & think that the OP took them away from the mother (which I agree would be wrong), perhaps the mother had died or abandonned them? In which case the OP saved their lives?
I did try to post something similar to that this morning,but a lack of signal stopped me. After so many requests for information the reaction appeared a little hostile based on assumptions.
good point, it's a shame we haven't been able to clarify that point.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by msmara » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:59 pm

Aliastar wrote:...
Well she found me again, this time she was a little more cautious, she climbed up onto my curtain rod and stared lovingly at me for a whole ten minutes, like a minnie stalker. The next night she sniffed me, then she started started jumping on me again. After a week and a half she was sleeping under the covers with me against my back, but still would not get caught. She was out for a total of six weeks and I finally got her back three days ago after she got caught in my humane rat trap, which I had had set up the entire time! When I looked at her I knew, she was pregnant! Just the night before I was suspicious as she was grooming me all over while I was trying to sleep, so I figured her maternal hormones had kicked in. I've now fixed up a “nurser” cage for her, covered in wire, and she seems quite happy to be cuddled by mummy again at every opportunity. I plan on taking the kids off her when they get fur and raising them myself, otherwise they won't be pet like.
I think it's the bit in bold everyone's said they don't like.

Note: quote reduced to the relevant paragraph.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Jimi+Milo » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:46 am

msmara wrote:
Aliastar wrote:...When I looked at her I knew, she was pregnant! Just the night before I was suspicious as she was grooming me all over while I was trying to sleep, so I figured her maternal hormones had kicked in. I've now fixed up a “nurser” cage for her, covered in wire, and she seems quite happy to be cuddled by mummy again at every opportunity. I plan on taking the kids off her when they get fur and raising them myself, otherwise they won't be pet like...
I think it's the bit in bold everyone's said they don't like.
That bit stuck out to me also. I did find it interesting, though I cant say I feel particularly comfortable with it either for a number of reasons, one being I did get the impression from what I've read that it was something the OP did for their own interests and not that of the rats. On that basis and also on the comment about removing other babies to raise herself, I also made the (reasonable) assumption that no attempt was made to find mum...

I do feel in situations like that with wild animals, while I'm sure many will find this harsh, it is not our place to interfere (as sad as the outcome would have potentially been).
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Stevmic » Fri Jun 17, 2011 5:58 am

Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance at the life stages of a rat. At what age do they get fur? Will it be that different to the age fancy rats are taken from their mother? (which by many peoples views should also be seen as cruel? Do fancy rat mothers voluntarily give their offspring up for adoption?)

I'm just a fan of sticking to the facts. As they say "to assume is to make an *please do not swear* of u and me"

Edit: Really?! profanity blocked?! I only wrote the three letter word meaning donkey... lol
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by NickyE » Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:05 am

Stevmic wrote:Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance at the life stages of a rat. At what age do they get fur? Will it be that different to the age fancy rats are taken from their mother? (which by many peoples views should also be seen as cruel? Do fancy rat mothers voluntarily give their offspring up for adoption?)

I'm just a fan of sticking to the facts. As they say "to assume is to make an *please do not swear* of u and me"
Fancy rat mothers babies are normally taken away from them - at least the boys are at around 4.5 weeks. By that time they are fully furred, running around, eyes open. And the mum has normally got fed up with the babies keeping trying to feed from them - whether that makes them voluntarily giving up the babies I'm not sure :-? Babies would not normally go to their new homes until around 7 or 8 weeks and most breeders will insist they're homed in at least pairs or be going in with same sex, similar age rats.

Babies start getting their fur around 6 days old at which point they are definitely still fully dependent on mum
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Stevmic » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:40 pm

NickyE wrote:
Stevmic wrote:Maybe I'm just showing my ignorance at the life stages of a rat. At what age do they get fur? Will it be that different to the age fancy rats are taken from their mother? (which by many peoples views should also be seen as cruel? Do fancy rat mothers voluntarily give their offspring up for adoption?)

I'm just a fan of sticking to the facts. As they say "to assume is to make an *please do not swear* of u and me"
Fancy rat mothers babies are normally taken away from them - at least the boys are at around 4.5 weeks. By that time they are fully furred, running around, eyes open. And the mum has normally got fed up with the babies keeping trying to feed from them - whether that makes them voluntarily giving up the babies I'm not sure :-? Babies would not normally go to their new homes until around 7 or 8 weeks and most breeders will insist they're homed in at least pairs or be going in with same sex, similar age rats.

Babies start getting their fur around 6 days old at which point they are definitely still fully dependent on mum
6 days, wow that is young. Quite a difference then, lol. I'd hope the op didn't mean as young as that...
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Ceslater » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:07 pm

i seriously need to stop speed reading, i am horrible inaccurate.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Solar » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:20 pm

Having read this, I think the op is going to find herself in more trouble. Since the first litter she raised would only accept her, this new litter will also only accept her, so she would have to keep them all. Plus if I read right, that mum has escaped again so she's bound to be pregnant again and could potentially not get caught again which means she could have the litter in the house rather then in a cage.

Also that little baby the op caught in the live trap... I'm wondering if because mum was awol for 6 weeks, (if I read that right) if she had a first litter in the house, got pregnant while raising them then got caught and had her second litter the first litter would be about 3-4 weeks... Am I correct in thinking this?

I'm surprised the op hasn't secured the cage or got a all metal one since the rat keeps escaping from it.
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Aliastar » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:39 pm

Yes I have pictures, just not sure how to put them on website. I would also like to point out to the people who think it was cruel, that we poison rats to get rid of them and that's so cruel its amazing. We were going to put poison down the kennels, so the kids would have starved to death. Also rats like other creatures in the wild have a quick memory loss after they lose their kids. After all they lose so many in the wild, if they didn't they would be permanently grieving.

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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Jimi+Milo » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:45 pm

While I dont doubt rat poison is more cruel than this I still do not feel this is right. Are we correct on the assumption this was something you did purely for your own curiosity? I mean rather than due to the mum having died or similar. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I dont intend it that way I just cant think of a better way of wording what I mean :oops: .
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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by Flox » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:28 am

I think her point is that the adults would have been disposed of, anyway.

While I do very much understand why this upsets people, and some of the things done don't always sit right with everyone, I think it was very interesting to read (and made me go look up the different types of rat!). And the OP did say, specifically I think, that (s)he (sorry!) had this experience and wondered if anyone else wanted to know about it and the differences between rearing these rats and fancy rats. Everyone said yes. That's what we got.

While the moral implications are also interesting I'd rather see that as a discussion than a lot of people posting just to say "I don't think that's right" without it actually opening into a discussion on all sides. Advice as to how to secure the cage might be more appropriate than 'surprised' comments about it not being done :)

I realise I'm falling into argument territory myself here, too, but not really sure how to avoid that! In an attempt - Aliastar, do you know what species your wild rats are? Also, without trying to be inflammatory, are you going to try to keep your female secured? Just from your last post, if your land has to be kept free of rodents she must be at risk when she's at large, surely? Do you know how she escaped? If she's able to squeeze out through the bars you could perhaps wrap some finer mesh wire around the outside to stop her pushing through.

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Re: Wild pet rats continued...

Post by indigoj » Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:29 am

'Saving' the original litter from poison or starvation I can totally understand. However to allow further litters to occur and then to plan to take the babies away purposely is just not feeling good at all.

It's not that hard to make a cage safe so a rat cannot escape and while it is very interesting to read and see there is a huge difference between finding a litter and taking a litter.

Obviously a lot of us feel this and maybe it highlights the different ways rats are seen around the world, however I would encourage the original poster to continue with updates etc as it is an experience we can all learn from.
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