Reggie Rat

Discuss what your rats eat. From general diet, food brands, eating problems and treat foods.
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Hanlou
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Hanlou » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:03 pm

:roll: Not again.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by debzratties » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:02 pm

As this post has targeted individuals personally wether intentional or not then Would this not have been better off done through pm rather than a public forum?

I personally don't feel able to post on the feeding forum now as I would feel like I was adding flames to the fire so to speak at the meer mention of the word straights and in turn this is not helping me which means my rats would be the ones to lose out which kind of defeats the object of this type of forum really. :(

And as individuals have been mentioned and a lot of blame has been directed towards Jemma/Loyd I would like to be able to heir my own opinions, I have always felt my rats diet has never been good enough and this has played on my mind a lot lately. This has been down to my own isecurities and nothing at all to do with feeling pressured by ANY members on this forum.
Because of the problems with a lot of my girls developing lumps atm I have decided to steer away from the more commercial mixes that i've been using and have a go at using a straights base mix to see if this will help my girls, and I can only speak for myself but Jemma has always been a wealth of good advice and information and not once have I been made to feel pressured or inferior because i'd been using anything other than straights infact it has never even been mentioned by her in any of the many posts that she's replied to unless I have asked a question directly regarding this issue.

I understand fully the problems that other people are facing regarding the whole diet thing and in particular Hobbit stealers dilema, as i'm also trying to improve my own girl's diet and ultimately their health in general. This has been very challenging to say the least but at the end of the day it has always been my choice to do this, like Jemma said everybody is responsible for themselves and should make their own decisions. She is entitled to her own opinions just as we all are, nobody is forced to agree with them.

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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by MistressSadako » Sat Mar 05, 2011 6:12 pm

debzratties wrote:As this post has targeted individuals personally wether intentional or not then Would this not have been better off done through pm rather than a public forum?
Couldn't agree more.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:05 am

debzratties wrote:As this post has targeted individuals personally wether intentional or not then Would this not have been better off done through pm rather than a public forum?
I have also spoken to Jemma privately regarding this matter.
I personally don't feel able to post on the feeding forum now as I would feel like I was adding flames to the fire so to speak at the meer mention of the word straights and in turn this is not helping me which means my rats would be the ones to lose out which kind of defeats the object of this type of forum really.
This certainly wasn't the intended outcome of any of my posts in this thread and I am sorry you now feel this way.



For those who may have misunderstood my motivations for posting here;

My concern is that those owners who either do not use straights, or do not want to use straights, are missing out on help because they feel that posting for help is a waste of time because the only help on offer in the feeding section appears to be for those who are using straights ... I am quite sure that anyone who can advise on a straights diet is also more than capable of offering help and advise on any other diet too, but this does not appear to be happening. I do not want any rats or owners to miss out on help of any kind regarding any diet.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by debzratties » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:14 am

Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote: For those who may have misunderstood my motivations for posting here;

My concern is that those owners who either do not use straights, or do not want to use straights, are missing out on help because they feel that posting for help is a waste of time because the only help on offer in the feeding section appears to be for those who are using straights ... I am quite sure that anyone who can advise on a straights diet is also more than capable of offering help and advise on any other diet too, but this does not appear to be happening. I do not want any rats or owners to miss out on help of any kind regarding any diet.
I haven't even started feeding straights yet but Jemma has always replied to my previous posts regarding any concerns i've had about my girl's diets without ever mentioning this or making me feel like i'm feeding an inferior mix by not using straights, so it certainly hasn't been a waste of time for me.
I also completely agree that help should be offered to everybody regardless of which diet is followed but as I said in my last post, I can only speak for myself, it's not my place to comment on what other people may be thinking but I've not encountered any of the issues that have been mentioned. I just think it's very sad after all the excellent advice I've recieved from Jemma among other people (you included :wink:) that this post has turned out to be some kind of witch hunt with Jemma being made the scapegoat :(

The reason I mentioned feeling unable to post on the feeding forum was because I'd feel like I was putting Jemma in an awkward situation by mentioning anything relating to straights now, thats the last thing i'd want, and not because of anything you've mentioned in your replies to this thread. When we took on the group of 10 rescues we were still fairly new to owning rats and I wouldn't have had the confidence to take them on if FR hadn't been here, I've relied heavily on this forum and in turn it has helped me improve the lives of my original group and more importantly save the lives of our 10 rescue's, you and Jemma have played a big part in helping me do this
so i've got a lot to be thankfull for. :D

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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Lloy-D2788 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:23 pm

Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I don't think this is either helpful or relevant. The issue here, at least as I see it, is not that people are 'kicking up a fuss' about the promotion of the straights diets, it's about the lack of balanced replies that are seen within the feeding section generally.
So when straights weren't around everyone was balanced in their replies? This I find hard to imagine, which is why it does come across like a vendetta against straights. I'm not saying it is, and in fact I am sure it is not as TRW wouldn't sell the SG if that were the case, but it certainly does feel that way sometimes.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:The majority of posters may be feeding straights, and yes, they are therefore going to recommend a straights diet by default, and then yes, this will most be the common reply ... but what is happening is that recommending straights is becoming the only acceptable reply because all other suggestions are being picked apart constantly, which is not only unnecessary, but there is nothing wrong with these other suggestions.
This 'picking apart' is a good thing though, everyone should be aware of the pitfalls of any certain diet. I don't see my comments on Reggie Rat as picking it apart as I feel the quality and variety in the mix is compromised in comparison to straights.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I don't think that a survey would be of any real use at the moment because I don't think people using a straights diet have been using it for long enough to really be able to assess the long term effects of that diet, positive or otherwise.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:The straights diet has known issues
Don't these two statements contradict one another? What are these issues you're referring to?
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:...it really has begun to feel that any counter arguments will just be dismissed completely and so it is just a waste of time replying ... and I think this is why no one else generally replies in the feeding section now.
They aren't 'dismissed' surely, how can anything be dismissed without legitimate counterarguments? Like I have said already critically analysing diet is no bad thing. But the arguments presented against straights in this thread don't stand up IMO, especially as they could apply to any diet and some could even argue more likely in a diet you have no real control over. Without research into the ingredients, their quality, their quantity in the mix etc., how can you be sure the mix is good enough? Yes they have to adhere to rules and regulations, but they don't have to account for what will or will not be eaten nor do they have to adhere to the quality standards we would expect for ourselves.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:This is of no help to those who do not wish to shop at Rat Rations for whatever reason.
So are you suggesting in that all my replies I should also consider people's ethics too?
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:Are the majority of posters not aware of the other acceptable diets? If they are aware of them, then why are these not mentioned alongside the straights diet? I think this would be a way round the issue.
That is a fair point and I will try and link, in all diet related replies, to the FR Diet page in future.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:Rats like any other animal take time to adjust to a new diet. The greater the basic difference in diet between new and old, the longer the adaption is going to take, and that is without taking into account possible changes in metabolism and organ function which have occurred due to the old diet which will also have a bearing on how quickly any one rat adapts to a new diet.
Do you have any links from your research on this, I'd be interested to read more.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I do not find it difficult maintain condition in the furry companions of my nakies currently, but I know I would have issues if I changed to straights because nakies really need a lot more calories from what I've seen here. Out of interest, how would you incorporate this requirement into a straights diet? What would you add or leave out?
Why would you have issues on straights? If your nakie can get more calories from the diet, why aren't your other rats also getting more? On straights I would personally feed as normal and supplement the individual rat(s) with extras. Though I haven't done any research into it so that is completely of the top of my head, I'm not going to come up with a whole diet plan out of interest. I am very much hard pressed for time at the minute, FR is serving as a distraction from the onslaught of deadlines fast approaching.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Lloy-D2788 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:32 pm

I think debzratties' reply shows it is clearly not black and white, and that some of these 'feelings' will always remain by those who perceive them. I'm going to quote something from someone who provided me with an oasis of clarity recently:
Perspective is the creator of truth in a situation without absolutes.
ETA: I hope she doesn't mind! :oops:
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by tabirat » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:10 pm

There are a few of us who don't post to feeding much because of the combative attitudes that crop up in many threads, but in my experience when I post an alternative to straights it's still 'put down' and taken personally by the very people who are crying out in this thread for more people to post alternatives! :-? Please consider that there are different reasons why people don't post here (which are nothing to do with people posting about straights) - Debz has outlined another valid reason (to protect someone she perceives is under attack).

[This was a thread in which the OP was confused by conflicting information and was wondering if she was doing enough in terms of mixing PAH nuggets and a grain mix from Wilkinson's - straights had already been offered as an alternative, as had Xtra Vital as a single feed.]
tabirat wrote:Why not just choose say 3 different commercial feeds and mix them together. On a budget and for simplicity this is a perfectly reasonable way of feeding rats so long as you select the foods carefully. Like Sab says there are some pretty decent feeds around... and cost wise mixing say 3 of the better ones would give you a good solid feed where you didn't have to also add the cost of vits and minerals. Just a thought. A mix of say the extra vital that Sab mentioned, plus burgess supa fruiti rabbit and something like PAH rat muesli would make a sound and varied mix with a wide range of ingredients. Alternatively what area are you in... some people are willing to sell on small amounts of a complete mix.
AlienRat wrote:I don't see how mixing three brands with similar ingredients improves the mix rather than feeding one good brand. I feed Xtra vital, and I really don't see it as needing rabbit food added. I give daily essentials as an insurance but more because the rats like it. I am not sure I like the insinuations that people are feeding a bad diet if they don't mix several brands together or make their mix from scratch. It implies that I must be doing a really bad job feeding ours just because I am not following the current feeding trend and I really don't think it's fair, . If you also feed fresh foods and some ethically sourced chicken and fish, I don't think it is wrong to pick one brand and stick with that. Also, I would never encourage people to buy from PAH either...
tabirat wrote:It's not an insinuation of anything - if you look at the ingredients of the three I suggested you will see that it is just a simple way of increasing variety of ingredients, which is what the OP was concerned about (which is always a good principle when feeding rats, but like you say can be done in many other ways), while not losing overall supplements, so not having to think about extras beyond some fresh veg. Just because people do things differently from you (or I, or anyone) doesn't mean they are wrong. What I am suggesting isn't what I feed, but there's nothing wrong with giving someone having lots of suggestions so that they can pick the one that's best for them. I only suggested PAH because the OP is already feeding a PAH feed so obviously doesn't mind shopping there (as many people don't). No-one said it was wrong to do anything, did they?
In the interests of complete fairness these are the first exchange of posts in a much longer discussion which can be read here if anyone is so inclined:
http://www.fancy-rats.co.uk/community/v ... &sk=t&sd=a
I remember the exchange because for me it was the straw that broke the camel's back and from that point I decided not to bother.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by toyah » Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:30 pm

I just wanted to say that I've fed a dozen or so hairless rats on a mainly straights based diet and they have been fine on the same diet as their furrier chums, except I tend to give the hairless an extra protein meal once a week or so. I hope that helps.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:41 pm

debzratties wrote:I also completely agree that help should be offered to everybody regardless of which diet is followed but as I said in my last post, I can only speak for myself, it's not my place to comment on what other people may be thinking but I've not encountered any of the issues that have been mentioned.
Then perhaps my view of things, and the view of others who have voiced similar concerns (in general and to me on a personal level), has been skewed by the threads we have read ... it is good to know that you have not encountered these issues, so thank you for saying so.
I just think it's very sad after all the excellent advice I've recieved from Jemma among other people (you included :wink:) that this post has turned out to be some kind of witch hunt with Jemma being made the scapegoat
I have tried really hard for my posts here not to come across like this, and I am sorry if they have.

I am glad you've found the help you needed regardless of who it has come from, and I am sure your rats can only benefit as a result.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:48 pm

Lloy-D2788 wrote:So when straights weren't around everyone was balanced in their replies? This I find hard to imagine, which is why it does come across like a vendetta against straights. I'm not saying it is, and in fact I am sure it is not as TRW wouldn't sell the SG if that were the case, but it certainly does feel that way sometimes.
When straights weren't around not everyone was balanced in their replies, I haven't said anything to indicate that they were? However I do think there was a lot more discussion about the pros and cons of all diets 'pre-straights', and now it just seems to be a lot more difficult to get a real discussion going about the pros and cons of all diets without someone condemning all the other options.
This 'picking apart' is a good thing though, everyone should be aware of the pitfalls of any certain diet. I don't see my comments on Reggie Rat as picking it apart as I feel the quality and variety in the mix is compromised in comparison to straights.
The picking apart can be a good thing yes, but I do think it has become excessive and when that happens, it leads to personal feelings becoming involved which is what has happened here. You say that these concerns feel like a vendetta against straights, but this works the other way too and it can feel that when someone suggests other options there is a vendetta against these.
Don't these two statements contradict one another? What are these issues you're referring to?
I don't think they are contradictory. I just don't think people feeding straights have had long enough to assess any long term effects fully, and this includes long term effects and issues that aren't necessarily known about yet. The one particular issue that is known about is the lack of calcium in the straights diet. Supplements need to be added to prevent calcium deficiencies, but calcium can also be overdosed and there are never any cautions about this aspect of the supplementation.
They aren't 'dismissed' surely, how can anything be dismissed without legitimate counterarguments? Like I have said already critically analysing diet is no bad thing. But the arguments presented against straights in this thread don't stand up IMO, especially as they could apply to any diet and some could even argue more likely in a diet you have no real control over. Without research into the ingredients, their quality, their quantity in the mix etc., how can you be sure the mix is good enough? Yes they have to adhere to rules and regulations, but they don't have to account for what will or will not be eaten nor do they have to adhere to the quality standards we would expect for ourselves.
Not everyone shares the concerns regarding commercial mixes that are often voiced here. Some people feel that a commercial mix designed to be fed to rats is a good enough mix already and they do not see the need to research things any further ... but this doesn't mean that they are unwilling to improve upon the existing diet, and that they cannot improve upon the existing diet, without completely changing to straights ... should these people be left to flounder without help because they can't or don't want to feed straights for whatever reason, regardless of the pros and cons of the diet they are currently feeding?
So are you suggesting in that all my replies I should also consider people's ethics too?
No. I am suggesting that not everyone can afford to shop at Rat Rations and that it would be nice if people were given alternatives to this.
That is a fair point and I will try and link, in all diet related replies, to the FR Diet page in future.
Thank you for taking that on board.
Do you have any links from your research on this, I'd be interested to read more.
No, I'm sorry, I read an awful lot and I don't save all the links, you will have to find things for yourself if you'd like to read more.
Why would you have issues on straights? If your nakie can get more calories from the diet, why aren't your other rats also getting more?
I would have issues feeding straights to my nakies because as far as I am aware part of the point of a straights diet is that nutrients and calories are less easily accessible than in other diets, and I know this would cause at least some of my nakies issues because some of them need very easily accessible calories in order to maintain their weight.
Though I haven't done any research into it so that is completely of the top of my head, I'm not going to come up with a whole diet plan out of interest.
Suppose my interest is because I am considering moving to straights. Was this not a good opportunity to demonstrate to me just how versatile and adaptable a straights diet can be? What a shame that you have no time to take advantage of this opportunity.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Jemma » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:53 pm

Just wanted to say thanks to those that have stood up for me or made an effort for this thread to not be all about me. Particularly to debzratties as i know it must have been hard for you to come into a heated argument and I appreciate it. I'm not going to join in this argument as i feel it got out of hand somewhere and the good points that might have been made have been lost. I'm also not going to defend myself or make this any more about me than it already seems to be. I'm honestly not interested in that. I don't spend time on this forum to convert people to my view of life, i just like helping folk land there rats. i wonder if it's worth starting a separate discussion on some of the issues raised here so they can be discussed in a less heated manner.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:01 pm

toyah wrote:I just wanted to say that I've fed a dozen or so hairless rats on a mainly straights based diet and they have been fine on the same diet as their furrier chums, except I tend to give the hairless an extra protein meal once a week or so. I hope that helps.
Thank you for your input toyah, it is indeed helpful and it is good to know that hairless ratties can do well on a straights based diet. I hope you don't mind a few questions! ... When you say 'straights based' I am assuming that you add other things that are not straights? Roughly, what kind of proportions do you use for this, and what are typical examples of non-straights ingredients that you use? Also, do you feel that the hairless rats need the extra protein meals that you provide to maintain their their condition, or do you add those as more of a 'just in case'? (Please don't feel the need to go into massive detail, I'm just trying to get a feel for how it all works for you and the hairless peeps.)
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by toyah » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:15 pm

Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:Thank you for your input toyah, it is indeed helpful and it is good to know that hairless ratties can do well on a straights based diet. I hope you don't mind a few questions! ... When you say 'straights based' I am assuming that you add other things that are not straights? Roughly, what kind of proportions do you use for this, and what are typical examples of non-straights ingredients that you use? Also, do you feel that the hairless rats need the extra protein meals that you provide to maintain their their condition, or do you add those as more of a 'just in case'? (Please don't feel the need to go into massive detail, I'm just trying to get a feel for how it all works for you and the hairless peeps.)
I have probably fed a mainly straights based diet for longer than most (since at least 2007), and over the years this has evolved and changed a great deal. Like most who mix their own diets, sometimes change is just for the sake of change and sometimes it's for a particular reason, so I can't guarantee that the details I give you will be 100% correct :lol: Saying that ....

At the time I had my hairless, I was mixing a diet that was mainly barley, oats, wheat, maize, dried peas, groats, mixed bird seeds, and some dog kibble - with other additions of whatever I found at the feed merchants that looked interesting, and sometimes I'd shove a sack of pig food, pygmy goat food, rabbit food, or horse pasture mix if it happened to be on special offer. I mixed it until it "looked right", which I appreciate isn't terribly helpful!

I felt extra meals were more of a "just in case", and probably unneccessary in the cases of the better bred ones - but I had some really very poorly bred hairless that I actually think would have needed extra TLC even if they did happen to have fur.

At the moment I still feed straights, though now with much more variation in ingredients and I have changed the protein sources from seeds and kibble to seeds and shrimp/fish, and I don't add complete mixes for other species now, as I'm much less nervous that I've missed something important! If I had hairless again then I imagine I would just feed them that diet without any extras on top of what the other rats get.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Hanlou » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:04 pm

Jemma wrote:I don't spend time on this forum to convert people to my view of life, i just like helping folk land there rats. i wonder if it's worth starting a separate discussion on some of the issues raised here so they can be discussed in a less heated manner.
Me too. But lately I am starting to feel I cannot express myself without being attacked (no - not having things 'challenged' but being attacked) and I for one am not even sure at the moment if I want to stay on FR because of this thread and others. I haven't read the whole thread - frankly my health just isn't up to the stress right now. ((( hugs ))) Jemma xx

I stand by my first post - I don't like Reggie Rat and don't feel it's a good quality food. *shrugs* and I don't give a monkey's what anyone else thinks about that. For the record; I did used to use this when there wasn't much else around and my rats certainly didn't do well on it at all so am not typing as someone who has no actual experience of these things - I have been keeping rats for a fair amount of time though obviously am currently ratless.

For other species - in case anyone actually wants to know - my mice have been soley on straights for a long time now. I used my own straights mix before the appearance of ratrations. Three of my original Welsh mice died at 27 months old. A record for me so far. They were about as poorly bred as mice possibly could be but they were incredibly healthy given their appalling background and lived a lot longer than I expected. In this last group of mice they were on straights at least 80% of the time I had them.
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