Reggie Rat

Discuss what your rats eat. From general diet, food brands, eating problems and treat foods.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Lloy-D2788 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:17 pm

Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:When straights weren't around not everyone was balanced in their replies, I haven't said anything to indicate that they were? However I do think there was a lot more discussion about the pros and cons of all diets 'pre-straights', and now it just seems to be a lot more difficult to get a real discussion going about the pros and cons of all diets without someone condemning all the other options.
Perhaps that would be an idea for some new threads.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:The picking apart can be a good thing yes, but I do think it has become excessive and when that happens, it leads to personal feelings becoming involved which is what has happened here. You say that these concerns feel like a vendetta against straights, but this works the other way too and it can feel that when someone suggests other options there is a vendetta against these.
What has been excessive in mine, or anyones, critical evaluation here?
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I don't think they are contradictory. I just don't think people feeding straights have had long enough to assess any long term effects fully, and this includes long term effects and issues that aren't necessarily known about yet. The one particular issue that is known about is the lack of calcium in the straights diet. Supplements need to be added to prevent calcium deficiencies, but calcium can also be overdosed and there are never any cautions about this aspect of the supplementation.
This is one of the only arguments I ever seem to hear from people, I was rather hoping it would be something new. A rat's body is well equipped to cope with periods of shortage and excess through the physiological process where calcium can be shifted in and out of the bones. The caution exercised is not giving calcium everyday and rather every 2-3 days a week, allowing the body to continue functioning normally through coping with such periods of excess and shortage... something it can do, just not continuously. I see no reason why a rat shouldn't be able to get what it needs from that while the risk of overdosing is limted. Calcium deficiency is not a non-issue in commercial mixes, so I don't think that in this matter it has a massive advantage over straights, nor am I saying straights has an advantage over commercial mixes... I would consider them fairly equal on this account.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:Not everyone shares the concerns regarding commercial mixes that are often voiced here. Some people feel that a commercial mix designed to be fed to rats is a good enough mix already and they do not see the need to research things any further ... but this doesn't mean that they are unwilling to improve upon the existing diet, and that they cannot improve upon the existing diet, without completely changing to straights ... should these people be left to flounder without help because they can't or don't want to feed straights for whatever reason, regardless of the pros and cons of the diet they are currently feeding?
When have I said that straights is the only option, that's not what I think at all. If someone wants to improve their mix I am all for it and will help in any way I can!
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote: No. I am suggesting that not everyone can afford to shop at Rat Rations and that it would be nice if people were given alternatives to this.
If cost were an issue I would hope they would indicate in the thread, in which case I would try and offer suggestons that were financially viable for them. I'm not a mind reader but I do understand that some people really cannot afford it, that being said I don't think straights is exclusive to those on high incomes. I'm certainly not! :lol:

In fact currently it is cheaper for me to buy the RR complete mix at £2.15 a kg than to buy PAH muesli at £2.99.

For comparison, 20kg of mix would cost:

£43.00 including P&P at RR for complete mix
£59.80 including free P&P at PAH for PAH muesli.

That's a huge saving for me, but that's because I'm buying in bulk. What could really make things affordable to people is for clusters of owners to chip in together, anyone in Lincoln could buy this mix for cost price from me. The saving could then allow them to buy the supplements required. Just a thought.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:No, I'm sorry, I read an awful lot and I don't save all the links, you will have to find things for yourself if you'd like to read more.
I certainly will when I have a moment, at the minute dissertation writing has taken over my life!!
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:
I would have issues feeding straights to my nakies because as far as I am aware part of the point of a straights diet is that nutrients and calories are less easily accessible than in other diets, and I know this would cause at least some of my nakies issues because some of them need very easily accessible calories in order to maintain their weight.
The point of straights to me is that you can make it what you want it to be, if you need the calories to be more accessible then you could do so by majoring on processed grains. In a standard straights mix there should be a variety of processed and non-processed grains because they are different, nutritionally, in what they offer.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:Suppose my interest is because I am considering moving to straights. Was this not a good opportunity to demonstrate to me just how versatile and adaptable a straights diet can be? What a shame that you have no time to take advantage of this opportunity.
I'm sorry but when push comes to shove something has to give, and unfortunately it's not going to be my education. I shouldn't even be here right now really! :lol:
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Lloy-D2788 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:23 pm

Hanlou wrote: Me too. But lately I am starting to feel I cannot express myself without being attacked (no - not having things 'challenged' but being attacked) and I for one am not even sure at the moment if I want to stay on FR because of this thread and others. I haven't read the whole thread - frankly my health just isn't up to the stress right now.
I'm really sorry to hear this Hanlou. :(
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:46 am

toyah wrote:I have probably fed a mainly straights based diet for longer than most (since at least 2007), and over the years this has evolved and changed a great deal. Like most who mix their own diets, sometimes change is just for the sake of change and sometimes it's for a particular reason, so I can't guarantee that the details I give you will be 100% correct
I'll allow you a couple of percentage leeway :lol: Thank you, most helpful. I'm always looking for new ideas that I can use in my own mix and you have provided me with some useful ideas there which is very much appreciated. Pygmy goat food would never have even crossed my mind!

The hairless residents I have here are the moment are not great examples of breeding; two of them have already 'dropped dead' at only 7 and 9 months of age. They appear to have genetic retinopathy, kidney problems and dodgy hearts, so I am wary of playing around with things too much right now, but I am open to fiddling on a smaller scale, and will probably feel a little braver about changing more when they have passed on.

Have you been breeding while using straights at all? Sorry for my ignorance there, I don't know when you started up rat breeding again ... but I was wondering if you had noticed any difference there at all since using straights, because I was reading that the diet of parents can have a knock-on effect on litters and may still be influencing things several generations on ... since you've been using mainly a straights based mix since 2007 I thought maybe you would have several generations of rats to compare, if of course you have been breeding during this time ... if you haven't, then obviously you won't have anything to compare, in which case, just ignore me.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:48 am

Lloy-D2788 wrote:What has been excessive in mine, or anyones, critical evaluation here?
I have been talking about this aspect of things in general terms and I have not been speaking about any replies in this thread specifically ... and I don't really want to get into what I think is 'right' or 'wrong' about any one person's posts in this thread. I think this would only serve to make things appear personal and I would like to move away from that and continue discussing the other points rather than analysing previous replies in this thread.
This is one of the only arguments I ever seem to hear from people, I was rather hoping it would be something new.
I'm sorry to disappoint you ... it isn't really an 'argument' though, it's a fact. I can't give you examples other than calcium because they are not known about (yet).
A rat's body is well equipped to cope with periods of shortage and excess through the physiological process where calcium can be shifted in and out of the bones.
This assumes that the rat is not neutered and that all organs are functioning optimally. Both neutering and organ function have an impact on the bone remodelling mechanism.
If cost were an issue I would hope they would indicate in the thread, in which case I would try and offer suggestons that were financially viable for them. I'm not a mind reader but I do understand that some people really cannot afford it ...
How many people do you know that would be happy openly admitting on a public forum that they cannot afford to purchase the diet that is regularly promoted as the 'best one'? I wouldn't be happy speaking about my finances in this way, why should anyone asking for help be expected to? You don't have to be a mind reader to show some consideration of this aspect of things in your replies.
That's a huge saving for me, but that's because I'm buying in bulk. What could really make things affordable to people is for clusters of owners to chip in together, anyone in Lincoln could buy this mix for cost price from me. The saving could then allow them to buy the supplements required. Just a thought.
A good thought, some kind of regional 'clubs' for rat food purchases is a good and perhaps viable idea. I think this is worth exploring further.
I'm sorry but when push comes to shove something has to give, and unfortunately it's not going to be my education. I shouldn't even be here right now really!
You have enough time to provide arguments against using commercial rat mixes and to promote the diet you believe is best, but you don't have enough time to provide help to someone who is genuinely interested in how a straights diet can work and be adapted to suit particular rats?
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Lloy-D2788 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:07 am

Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I have been talking about this aspect of things in general terms and I have not been speaking about any replies in this thread specifically ... and I don't really want to get into what I think is 'right' or 'wrong' about any one person's posts in this thread. I think this would only serve to make things appear personal and I would like to move away from that and continue discussing the other points rather than analysing previous replies in this thread.
Right, I thought you were taking specifically there. I apologise, and agree that would be the best way to continue.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I'm sorry to disappoint you ... it isn't really an 'argument' though, it's a fact. I can't give you examples other than calcium because they are not known about (yet).
It is a fact, but calcium deficiency is a problem that extends further than to simply straights.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:This assumes that the rat is not neutered and that all organs are functioning optimally. Both neutering and organ function have an impact on the bone remodelling mechanism.
But organ function is largely unknown, so I struggle to see what anyone could do there. Neutering I wasn't aware of and I have two neutered boys who have been reared and maintained on straights, I will let you know how they get on. A small sample but something at least.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote: How many people do you know that would be happy openly admitting on a public forum that they cannot afford to purchase the diet that is regularly promoted as the 'best one'? I wouldn't be happy speaking about my finances in this way, why should anyone asking for help be expected to? You don't have to be a mind reader to show some consideration of this aspect of things in your replies.
Put simply, me. As I've already mentioned before, I see many diets as a range of excellence and how excellent they appear is very personal, to me that is straights but not to everyone. Unfortunately I would struggle to reply to any threads if I had to take into consideration all the factors... affordability, availablity, ethical stances, impartiality etc.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:A good thought, some kind of regional 'clubs' for rat food purchases is a good and perhaps viable idea. I think this is worth exploring further.
I never thought of using the shows for this, I will certainly put it forward to NERS.
Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:You have enough time to provide arguments against using commercial rat mixes and to promote the diet you believe is best, but you don't have enough time to provide help to someone who is genuinely interested in how a straights diet can work and be adapted to suit particular rats?
When this thread started it wasn't expecting things to unfold as they did, if I had known I probably wouldn't have input. I'm trying to continue the discussion I have fuelled, but I can only do so much. These replies are fairly low taxing, that wouldn't be and unfortunately I really don't have the time or energy. I apologise, but as I've already said I would try feeding a normal straights diet while supplementing the individual(s).
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Ratgirl@RatRitz » Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:59 am

Lloy-D2788 wrote:Right, I thought you were taking specifically there. I apologise, and agree that would be the best way to continue.
Okay dokey ... glad we got that straight (pardon the pun, can't help myself :lol: ).
It is a fact, but calcium deficiency is a problem that extends further than to simply straights.
I don't recall coming across anyone having this issue with other diets though? If you have, then I would be interested to hear about this.
But organ function is largely unknown, so I struggle to see what anyone could do there.
The primary culprit here tends to be the kidneys, and their function can be assessed, at the very least roughly, using urine testing, the rats' tooth condition and kidney palpation. I know, for example, that some of my hairless boys have kidney issues because they have pale teeth even though their urine tests okay and their kidneys feel normal. (mechanism = pale teeth--->anaemia--->lack of erythropoietin--->kidney dysfunction)
Neutering I wasn't aware of and I have two neutered boys who have been reared and maintained on straights, I will let you know how they get on. A small sample but something at least.
Please do, I think this could be useful information even though the sample size is small.
Unfortunately I would struggle to reply to any threads if I had to take into consideration all the factors... affordability, availablity, ethical stances, impartiality etc.
Fair enough ... perhaps others reading this might try to incorporate these other aspects into their replies where possible.
I never thought of using the shows for this, I will certainly put it forward to NERS.
That sounds like a reasonable option to me, certainly no harm in asking.
When this thread started it wasn't expecting things to unfold as they did, if I had known I probably wouldn't have input. I'm trying to continue the discussion I have fuelled, but I can only do so much. These replies are fairly low taxing, that wouldn't be and unfortunately I really don't have the time or energy. I apologise, but as I've already said I would try feeding a normal straights diet while supplementing the individual(s).
Again, fair enough ... maybe others reading will have some comments for me, toyah has already been of help to me here, but I'm sure she isn't the only one who might have some ideas for me.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by debzratties » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:27 pm

Ratgirl@RatRitz wrote:I am glad you've found the help you needed regardless of who it has come from, and I am sure your rats can only benefit as a result.
My rats have more than benefited as a result of the help i've been given by yourself, Jemma and others, i'm 100% certain that at least some of them wouldn't be alive now if we hadn't of taken them in. Like I said, I wouldn't have had the confidence to do this if it hadn't been for this help. :D
I've still got a lot to learn with regards to rat keeping and to take on rescues that were far from healthy was a little nerve racking to say the least. The point i'm trying to get at really is, I think posts like this one could deter people from asking for help or advice that they desperately need in order to help their own rats. For example, As this post has evolved over the last few days there's been health concerns that have cropped up that I was totally unaware of, particularly relating to lack of or excesses of certain vitamins and minerals but i can't ask for advice about this without feeling i'd be starting up yet another heated argument. :(
Jemma wrote:Just wanted to say thanks to those that have stood up for me or made an effort for this thread to not be all about me. Particularly to debzratties as i know it must have been hard for you to come into a heated argument and I appreciate it.
Don't worry,.... your worth it :lol:
I knew in my case, what other people were saying about you just wasn't true so I had to say something.

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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by langtounlass » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:36 pm

hello my rats rosie sophie {our 1 yr old dumbo lady rats} and cheeky {our 4 yr old fancy male rat} all love reggie rat
they also like pets at home museli and nuggets,
in human food they love rich tea bikkies,spoonful of weetabix,and my homemade scones,just a wee corner! :dumbogirly:

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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by sjmax » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:30 am

I too have found all the info on here very useful and cannot praise Jemma enough for her info and time! :D

Also, would be great if rat rations were available to buy at shows!
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by Cyber Ratty » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:05 am

They do go to some shows. :D
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by qubicpotato » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:56 am

Daisy C-Shape Hall wrote:Does anyone else use Reggie Rat?? Ours absoltely love it. I give them fresh things as well but should we be giving them something else too, or is this fine?

Our girls love it too. I use it as part of the Shunamite Diet rather than on it's own but, given the choice, my girls go straight for the Reggie Rat every time (we also use one of the Burgess rabbit foods as a base) :). We also give them lots of fresh veg and fruit, seeds, nuts etc and of course the cereals, kibble, pasta etc that makes up the SD. I would recommend the Shunamite Diet totally, it isnt difficult to 'make up', it isnt difficult to get the 'ingredients' and the rats love it. Most importantly, my girls are healthy and in good condition so the diet Im giving them can't be too bad :).

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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by LisaLQ » Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:18 pm

Not getting involved with the argument as there have been far more educated reponses than I could give.

But just as a side note - I am a firm believer in knowing your rats and knowing what they need.

I've fed pet shop mix (Burgess before it became nuggets, and shortly after) - my rats had a high proportion of mammary tumours, I've fed straights + extras (fresh and supplement) and my rats were in the worst condition despite several attempts to shuffle it about and make it suitable for them. After all the faff trying to give my rats what other people thought was the "best", I'm finally happy with my rats condition on a plain rabbit food and cereals mix. Edited to add: cost is £10-12 for 15-20kg of rabbit food, cereals and crackers a few pounds - still much cheaper than RR or straights, although this wasn't the motive for changing.

If the OP has no problems, I see no reason to change from Reggie Rat, IMO. If however she notices health or condition issues, she may want to consider something different - which could be either another commercial mix, a rabbit food based mix or straights.

I personally wont recommend straights as I dont think the average person (myself included) is capable of working out the nutritional balance. However, I'm not going to jump up and say those who are capable shouldnt feed it.

Edited to add: the only food I actively discourage are nuggets because of experience of obesity (and mammary tumours) and boredom.

Horses for courses. Use what works for your rats and your lifestyle.

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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by MistressSadako » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:19 pm

langtounlass wrote:hello my rats rosie sophie {our 1 yr old dumbo lady rats} and cheeky {our 4 yr old fancy male rat} all love reggie rat
they also like pets at home museli and nuggets,
in human food they love rich tea bikkies,spoonful of weetabix,and my homemade scones,just a wee corner! :dumbogirly:
I'm picking this out as i think it's important...I'm certainly not saying that that I'm not saying that Reggie Rat (or PaH nuggets etc) shouldn't be fed - but that just because your rats like them, it doesn't mean that they are good, or that that is reason enough for feeding them. Rats can't make informed decisions about what food is best for them, so we have to do it for them. It's like having children - I'm quite sure most kids would happily eat sweets every meal of the day, but we know that there are much better and more balanced options, and it's our responsibility to reinforce this.
I personally don't feed Reggie Rat because I don't like the colours and preservatives that are added to it. That and I really enjoy making up my own food 8)
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by HannahJ82 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:26 pm

I haven't the time or patience to read another "straights are best" thread. I just want to say that since being on straights my rats have lost condition and it has cost me a flipping fortune, including the expensive supplements needed, I am not convinced straights are better or even good. Before anyone tries to offer a helpful "have you tried adjusting the mix", yes I surely have, to no avail :)

All but 2 of my rats are rescues and look rubbish on straights, I fully intend to go back to using a commercial base which they were fine on before I was made to feel like an under-educated twit for not feeding straights. When I saw the sheer volume of straights threads here I became convinced I was doing something wrong in feeding Burgess fruiti as my base. Well I wasn't!

Furthermore, despite not.using reggie rat myself, I know of rats that have been fed it their whole lives and lived to a ripe old age, very healthily. It would be unwise to tell someone whose rats are healthy and happy that changing to straights will be better for their rats and this straights promo game needs to stop because it's not.the only diet available, people must be given options and straights are seriously more expensive which makes me feel the diet is gimmicky.
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Re: Reggie Rat

Post by hedgeweasel » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:07 pm

HannahJ82 wrote:I haven't the time or patience to read another "straights are best" thread. I just want to say that since being on straights my rats have lost condition and it has cost me a flipping fortune, including the expensive supplements needed, I am not convinced straights are better or even good. Before anyone tries to offer a helpful "have you tried adjusting the mix", yes I surely have, to no avail :)

All but 2 of my rats are rescues and look rubbish on straights, I fully intend to go back to using a commercial base which they were fine on before I was made to feel like an under-educated twit for not feeding straights. When I saw the sheer volume of straights threads here I became convinced I was doing something wrong in feeding Burgess fruiti as my base. Well I wasn't!

Furthermore, despite not.using reggie rat myself, I know of rats that have been fed it their whole lives and lived to a ripe old age, very healthily. It would be unwise to tell someone whose rats are healthy and happy that changing to straights will be better for their rats and this straights promo game needs to stop because it's not.the only diet available, people must be given options and straights are seriously more expensive which makes me feel the diet is gimmicky.

i guess it depends where you get the straights from, im pretty lucky in that mine are free or very cheap from a large animal feed store so i can take my pick what straights i want. if you go to H&B to source them then it will be expensive,

its the anti straights back lash going on lol

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