cod liver oil

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redrach
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cod liver oil

Post by redrach » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:23 am

Due to a change in family circumstances my ratties are now all temporarily living in my en-suite and being free-ranged in my bedroom. Today they came across a box of cod liver oil capsules that I didn't remember I had. They were going absolutely mental chewing the plastic box to bits to get at them. I've heard cod liver oil can be good for them in moderation (although linseed oil is better?) I was just wondering if I was to give them some cod liver occassionally would they be okay eating the capsules (they're just asda's regular ones), or should I pop them and just drip the oil over their food?

Just looking at the box, they're actually 'cod liver oil & multivitamins' and contain vitamins A, D, E, C, B6, B12, B1, B2, Folic Acid, Niacin, Panthothenic Acid.

Also, if it were safe to give them, the tablets are 1 a day for humans, how many would be okay for them all?
I have 4 boys- weighing 450-550g and 4 girls weighing 290-400g.
One capsule between them all? Or one per gender?

Thanks guys.
Rachael.
My Albie. My Chandler. My Rincewinde. My Twoflower. My Schuster. My Splinter. My Dumbo. My Monk. <3

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Jemma
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Re: cod liver oil

Post by Jemma » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:53 am

The trouble with cod liver oil is it's so high in vitamin A, you can get vitamin a extracted cod liver oil capsuals which would be ideal (seven seas do them, there enriched with vit d and if you check the blurb they will not mention vitamin A). These are fine to give relatively regularly, though obviously there fat so you don't want to stuff them full of them. You could probably feed one per rat weekly (mine will eat them from the capsual, some rats won't though), or if your using standard ones i would probably make it no more often than one every ten days, and probably split them between groups.

There are a lot of good oils too though, and if your rats diet is relatively low in fat they can be beneficial too them. I feed a fair range regularly, the most useful are linseed, mixed omega's and the vit a extracted cod liver oil
Jemma
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Re: cod liver oil

Post by redrach » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:00 pm

Thanks for the advice. :D
I'll maybe try them with one today them and if they eat them i'll go in search of some with the vitamin a removed or linseed.
Rachael.
My Albie. My Chandler. My Rincewinde. My Twoflower. My Schuster. My Splinter. My Dumbo. My Monk. <3

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Re: cod liver oil

Post by Giz » Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:19 pm

One or two things you may wish to consider.

1. Asda, Boots, Superdrug, Seven Seas, Centrum, Multibionta etc..
These brands do not contain vitamins. They contain vitamin isolates. These are not the same as what you get from food, they have been altered sufficiently in order for the company to be able to patent that ingredient.
Sadly, your body (and so I would imagine this would apply to your rats too, seeing as they do use them to test drugs for humans) is a little more complex than that. When it encounters a vitamin isolate, it desperately searches for that missing bit in order to make it the whole vitamin. In some cases vitamin isolates can actually be very bad for you.
Eg; vitamin C is a complex, it includes ascorbic acid, but it's not vitamin C unless the citrus bioflavonoids are present, as they would be in food. If you take ascorbic acid as a vitamin C supplement, then you are actually reducing the effectiveness of dietary vitamin C. This applies for a lot of vitamins. Which is why if you are going to bother with supplements you need to ensure that they are food source instead of pharmaceutical.
In other words, most of these brands are what create expensive urine. And for what you get in them (many contain aspartame and sodium saccharin and other nasties as filler) the food source vitamins are usually cheaper and contain more vitamin, less filler..

2. Cod liver oil..
Stop and think for a minute.. What is this fish swimming around in?
The seas are polluted with natural mercury from the earth, that's bad enough. But now between the oil spills, nuclear catastrophes, pollution, the seas are becoming toxic. And the liver is the body's detoxification organ, so anything the fish needs filtered out of it's system is going to be in that oil.
You're meant to limit your tuna intake because it's such a large fish and it eats smaller ones. Cod is big enough, it's probably eating smaller fish too.. Pretty soon, cod liver oil is going to become a dangerous supplement to take. Many of the more responsible manufacturers have switched to krill oil, as krill are tiny, they are only getting their own fill of the toxins as opposed to consuming other toxic fish and increasing their own toxicity.
A human dose of cod liver oil may deliver a few too many toxins.. It depends on when the fish were caught and where.. Vitamin C helps to detoxify harmful minerals and the rats produce that themselves, but there's only so much it can do, it's not an ultimate protector..

I wouldn't advise it, not from here on out anyway.. The Pacific was long considered a safer sea to fish from as the Atlantic was really polluted, now there's Olympic sized swimming pools worth of radioactive contaminated water being dumped into the pacific on a regular basis from Fukushima, and that will continue for some time..

Linseed oil is better for them (for us, we find it difficult to process linseed, flax or hemp oil into omega 3, your digestive system needs to be functioning optimally and you need to be getting all your co factors, but most of our rats on this forum eat better than we do, I would hope that they absorb it better!) because I would rather not be adding mercury, radioactive iodine, caesium and plutonium into their diets!!
Currently owned by; MooMoo, Monster, Badger and Dewey
And gone but not forgotten; Pixie, Hammo, Lakitu, Kamek, Hiro, Merry, Legolas, ChimChim, Koopa, Pippin, Wonky, Faerie, Mih-Ko, BooBoo, Sniffe, Chim Chim and Peepee :hearts:

redrach
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Re: cod liver oil

Post by redrach » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:28 pm

I think if you take such an extreme attitude, there's an awful of of foods you'd not be able to eat.
Rachael.
My Albie. My Chandler. My Rincewinde. My Twoflower. My Schuster. My Splinter. My Dumbo. My Monk. <3

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Re: cod liver oil

Post by Giz » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:59 pm

The point I was making is that while this small amount of radiation / mercury etc may be one thing while eating the flesh, in the liver it will be concentrated, and seeing as it's a human sized dose, that's far too much for a rat..
But yes.. Our food is becoming more toxic day by day and our governments are standing by and allowing it.. Lovely eh?? There's plenty you can do to offset these problems, but most people either don't know or don't care. I guess it all depends on whether you're aiming for prevention or praying for a cure :)

Edit; stupid autocorrect had other ideas about what I was trying to say!!
Currently owned by; MooMoo, Monster, Badger and Dewey
And gone but not forgotten; Pixie, Hammo, Lakitu, Kamek, Hiro, Merry, Legolas, ChimChim, Koopa, Pippin, Wonky, Faerie, Mih-Ko, BooBoo, Sniffe, Chim Chim and Peepee :hearts:

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Re: cod liver oil

Post by Jemma » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:05 am

As with everything (and I mean pretty muvch everything) in too high doses, if you only feed small amounts and have a varied diet then it is often beneficial. Livers do accumulate toxins, but they also accumalte certain vitamins that are often low in our rats diets. I personally prefer to have a mixture for that reason, but if you beleave its neccesary to avoid anything that may be harmful your rats would have a pretty unbalaced or dull diet.
Jemma
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Re: cod liver oil

Post by Giz » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:56 pm

That's the thing.. Within certain limits most things can be tolerated. But as the livers function is (among other things) to detoxify the blood, toxins accumulate here. And there's the sheer scale of size, toxins for humans are usually measured in a ratio to body weight..
Yes, there's some vitamins found in the liver - mainly vitamin A. Vitamin A is made in the liver from beta carotene, which is a precursor (in mammals anyway). Much like the form of omega 3 found in flax. Vitamin A, when it is made in the liver is called Retinol. Large doses of Retinol are toxic. this is why humans are not supposed to consume liver in large amounts. Granted, naturally formed Retinol is less harmful than synthetic Retinol, but you're still not supposed to consume too much, you're supposed to get your vitamin A from beta carotene. For us, the amount of Retinol contained in fish liver is minute. It would be much larger when you scale it down by mere body weight to a rat - this was why the poster above suggested the cod liver oils with the vitamin A removed..

My rats get a varied diet.. They get organic grains including quinoa (a complete source of vegetable protein as well as lots of minerals) and millet. They get plenty of veggies, fruit, herbs and spices (like turmeric, garlic, oregano etc), they get nuts (walnuts, brazil nuts, pine nuts), seeds (sesame, flax, pumpkin), sprouted beans (mung beans, aduki beans, etc), and they get some oily fish flesh once a week, this is also a source of omega 3, just not as concentrated. Plus they get their flax seeds so that they may make their own omega 3. They get a little coconut to ensure they are getting some saturated fat too. Plus the rabbit food.. Was thinking of getting them some sea vegetables until this Fukushima thing happened..

I'm not in any way avoiding anything except that which is harmful to me or the rats :) their diet could hardly be considered boring or lacking..
Currently owned by; MooMoo, Monster, Badger and Dewey
And gone but not forgotten; Pixie, Hammo, Lakitu, Kamek, Hiro, Merry, Legolas, ChimChim, Koopa, Pippin, Wonky, Faerie, Mih-Ko, BooBoo, Sniffe, Chim Chim and Peepee :hearts:

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